tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post2646095620755484473..comments2024-03-13T14:53:58.150-04:00Comments on MUSINGS OF A SCI-FI FANATIC: B5 S3 Ep22: Z'Ha'DumSFFhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-8889068467338979562014-09-03T01:56:05.585-04:002014-09-03T01:56:05.585-04:00@Havremunken: The Vorlons want the orderly, peacef...@Havremunken: <i>The Vorlons want the orderly, peaceful kumbayah kind of intergalactic happy family thing.</i><br /><br />More the orderly, peaceful, baa-ing sheep within carefully and cooly constructed pens thing. <br /><br />The Vorlons (save, perhaps, Kosh, contaminated by his contact with them) could never imagine a day when the Younger Races would not need the Vorlons to direct them. For their own good / alignment with the proper morality imperative, of course.***Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13619750729726616568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-29159263161820561212008-09-18T20:54:00.000-04:002008-09-18T20:54:00.000-04:00Okay, interesting take....I hadn't thought of it t...Okay, interesting take....I hadn't thought of it that way. I'll have to analyze again some time.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-78214023051044464262008-09-18T06:07:00.000-04:002008-09-18T06:07:00.000-04:00SciFi-Fanatic said:The scream indicates she exhibi...SciFi-Fanatic said:<BR/><I>The scream indicates she exhibits signs of humanity despite her cool change,</I><BR/>I almost forgot to mention this...<BR/>The scream, to me, was not an expression of her remaining humanity. It sounded like the scream the shadow vessels made, when we heard them.<BR/>To me it sounded like the shadow-part in her screamed in pain because of the closeness of the vorlon part of the ship.<BR/><BR/>In fact, the scream showed me, how much shadow she had become...<BR/><BR/>greetings <BR/>LyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-81668329450397361262008-09-16T19:40:00.000-04:002008-09-16T19:40:00.000-04:00Wait to go back to "Avalon" until you saw another ...Wait to go back to "Avalon" until you saw another episode.<BR/>We will tell you... we sure will :o)<BR/><BR/>reetings <BR/>LyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-44934772168535090742008-09-16T18:10:00.000-04:002008-09-16T18:10:00.000-04:00Ah yes, Picard....you see I had no idea we had tha...Ah yes, Picard....you see I had no idea we had that in common and I see the humor in your comment on that now.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-10975124933067622742008-09-16T15:37:00.000-04:002008-09-16T15:37:00.000-04:00Sci-Fi Fanatic wrote: I kind of like Earl Grey.Yea...Sci-Fi Fanatic wrote: <BR/><I>I kind of like Earl Grey.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, so does Captain Picard ;)<BR/><BR/>You needn't actually go back to Avalon; it's just Marcus' question who with respect to Sheridan's new Round Table is Merlin, and who is Morgana Le Fay.<BR/><BR/>M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-61652334830913973632008-09-16T13:04:00.000-04:002008-09-16T13:04:00.000-04:00I see now I have to go back to Late Deliver From A...I see now I have to go back to Late Deliver From Avalon....why do you do this to me? This is torture.<BR/><BR/>You are killing me with your tea analysis! So funny. I kind of like Earl Grey.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for all the book tips M. I will refer back here when I finish the book I'm currently reading. I definitely want a spoil-free book. There is way too much science-fiction and far too little time my friends.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-10029657452606050122008-09-16T05:28:00.000-04:002008-09-16T05:28:00.000-04:00As for the books, the Cavelos books are really har...As for the books, the Cavelos books are really hard to put down. I've no idea what problem some people seem to have with her allegedly "scientific writing style". And Peter Woodwards Galen is an absolutely great character (the technomage trilogy are basically his story, up to Crusade, but you also meet his teacher Elric, Anna Sheridan and Morden, Londo and Vir, and our dear Kosh - and there's lots about the Shadows).<BR/><BR/>It's spoiler-safe for you now to read "To Dream in the City of Sorrows" by Kathryn Drennan, "The Shadow Within" by Jeanne Cavelos, and the first two books ("Casting Shadows" and "Summoning Light") of her technomage trilogy. I believe it's also safe to read the first Psi Corps trilogy novel by Gregory Keyes.<BR/><BR/>M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-8315790702673592262008-09-16T04:08:00.000-04:002008-09-16T04:08:00.000-04:00It wouldn't be funny if it was green tee, or Darje...It wouldn't be funny if it was green tee, or Darjeeling (glad it wasn't Early Grey, though - I wouldn't put it past JMS). But camomile is usually used only by old or ill people. I wouldn't drink it voluntarily.<BR/><BR/>Now that you've finished both War Without End and Z'ha'dum, can we go back to Avalon and ask who is Merlin, and who is Morgana Le Fay? :)<BR/><BR/>M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-46832209450041720422008-09-15T21:28:00.000-04:002008-09-15T21:28:00.000-04:00MYou were killing me with the tea bit. That is so...M<BR/>You were killing me with the tea bit. That is so funbny. What a great point. Here he is in the den of killers. Knives are sharp and ready to go and, "may I get you a spot of tea?" hahahahaha!<BR/><BR/>Thanks for biting your tongue M [and Ly] but not too hard now.<BR/><BR/>I did get those books you mentioned and I have them on standby for when I finish the series. I don't dare read them yet, but hopefully we'll all have a chance to comment on them later. I do look forward to them.<BR/><BR/>Ly, I had been thinking about the whole chess game thing and there is no question about the pawn/ puppeteer analogy. We are definitely caught in the middle and I had been writing some of those thoughts down, so if you see me mention it in an entry it's very much because I was thinking right alongside you on those very points.<BR/><BR/>Check mates.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-14727948272952203032008-09-15T21:22:00.000-04:002008-09-15T21:22:00.000-04:00Thanks Havremunken for the kind words. I thought ...Thanks Havremunken for the kind words. I thought it might have been a tad long but I thought what the heck, it's the season finale and I had alot on my mind.<BR/><BR/>OH and I wanted to tell you all, I went back and checked out In The Shadow Of Z'Ha'Dum and being the thickhead that I am I didn't pick up on the subtleties you mentioned Havremunken. Having said that, I did re-check the scene you mentioned in Interludes [one of my very favorites as well] and I did see what you mean. I thought Delenn's face spoke volumes about how much she knows and what she's holding back as far as information. It was very interesting to check that out.<BR/><BR/>Also, I want to say, I know I don't ever mention it, but y'all are great about not giving anything away that I haven't seen yet. You are very respectful about not spoiling anything. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>So Yes, I agree, Z'Ha'Dum, Interludes, In The Shadow, all amazing. We will all have to contribute our Top 10 favorite episodes later this year when I'm done checking these last two seasons out.<BR/><BR/>So regarding some of your great thoughts. YEah, exactly, looking back at Kosh ripped to shreds. There is a kind of peaceful co-existence by the two BAD BOYS of races and now things are coming to a head again. Vorlons and Shadows are like master manipulators, puppeteers if you will. Should continue to be interesting.<BR/><BR/>Yes, the time paradox thing is always a bit of a headscratcher. Sure makes for thoughtprovoking observation concerning cause and affect or if there isn't any at all and the future simply cannot be changed. <BR/><BR/>Yah, loads to consider, it was definitely a challenging season and perhaps all the tie-ins and layering are impacting the length of my entries but it's such damn good fun.<BR/><BR/>Speaking of ROTS, I loved when Obi-Wan and Anakin were battling it out and Obi-Wan was crushed by the disappointment of Anakin's betrayal. When he says [paraphrasing] "I loved you like a brother." I was crushed for Obi!<BR/><BR/>Be sure to play hooky at least once some time! We all deserve it once in a while.SFFhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04256589316922398158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-72206160577167538142008-09-15T10:26:00.000-04:002008-09-15T10:26:00.000-04:00M. wrote:Though it's difficult, I'm holding my ton...M. wrote:<BR/><I>Though it's difficult, I'm holding my tongue on the Shadows vs Vorlons issue :)</I><BR/>Me too! :o)<BR/><BR/>The Vorlons triggered a lot of problems by creating telepaths and the Shadows do all they can to destroy (Narn) or control (Earth) them.<BR/>Yes, it seems we are just pawns on a giant chessboard...<BR/>But when was anything ever as it seemed in Babylon 5? ;o)<BR/><BR/>greetings<BR/>LyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-51667912346776540412008-09-15T04:19:00.000-04:002008-09-15T04:19:00.000-04:00Though it's difficult, I'm holding my tongue on th...Though it's difficult, I'm holding my tongue on the Shadows vs Vorlons issue :)<BR/><BR/>I'll never get over the camomile tea. This must be the first hero's visit in the lion's (or spider's) den in the history of literature that has him being offered camomile tea. <BR/><BR/>And no, Shadows definitely didn't create the Psi Corps. Psi Corps was founded in 2150 or something, and they were in hibernation at that time. You can read up on the origin of Psi Corps in the first volume of Gregory Keyes' Psi Corps trilogy. Speaking of canon tie-in books, there's a lot of information on Anna, Morden, and the Shadows in Jeanne Cavelos' "The Shadow Within" (up to the expedition of the Icarus) and her technomage trilogy (from the beginning of the B5 series up to Z'ha'dum, and a bit of an excursus on events afterwards). Most interesting stuff. <BR/><BR/>M.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1031498593064294214.post-5830190395224252342008-09-15T02:37:00.000-04:002008-09-15T02:37:00.000-04:00As usual, a great and engaging review that makes m...As usual, a great and engaging review that makes me want to skip work (I want to anyway, it's Monday morning here after all, but still..) and go home and watch the episode again. At this point in the series, "Z'ha'dum" was my favourite along with "Severed Dreams" and "Interludes and Examinations", with a large group of others following closely behind. I think the music, the mood, the acting, everything is amazing when you realize through his message to Delenn that this sacrifice (perhaps based on Kosh's message that he would die if he went) was planned ahead and he is just doing his worst to give his friends an advantage in the war. <BR/><BR/>I think I was as subtle as a kick to the neck in the commentary to the last episode, but yeah, Sheridan is definately not happy with the way Delenn has been keeping stuff from him. Still, that's not a deal-breaker for him as his message proves; If he had survived, he would have stayed with Delenn, but perhaps they would have some work to do on some truth issues. :) <BR/><BR/>You hit the nail on the head with the Darwin reference. The Shadows are kind of "forced darwinists", enforcing the survival of the fittest, kind of like the nazis (except they of course chose who were to be considered the fittest) - while the Vorlons want the orderly, peaceful kumbayah kind of intergalactic happy family thing. There is definately some sort of agreement going on here - the Vorlons and Shadows have avoided direct contact, and we saw the price for breaking this deal when Kosh was ripped into Vorlon stew. So yeah, something is up, and it all seems to be at a philosophical level. Consider the questions these races pose to the "younger" races. :)<BR/><BR/>As for Delenn's final message to Sheridan in the future - "Do not go to Z'ha'dum!" - it would be hard to speculate. This is one of those classic time paradox things - will me attempting to change the future actually just be what is needed to ensure it will happen exactly the way I don't want it to? You can pretty much deduce a lot from the fear in her eyes; No matter what, even winning the war is not enough to pay the "terrible price" that going to Z'ha'dum will cost them. I guess we'll find out. :)<BR/><BR/>Oh, and yeah, the goodbye between John and Michael was a good one; Both of them felt like they would never see each other again, and couldn't really say it; Not the same as - but not unlike - the scene in Revenge of the Sith where Obi-Wan and Anakin say goodbye, except they don't know that the next time they meet they will be hacking at each other with light sabres; In the B5 case, Sheridan rode the nuclear explosion down the giant whole, while Garibaldi was eaten by the shadow vessel, so it's hard to say what is going on.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and btw, I don't think the Shadows actually *created* the Psi Corps. I think they just ensured that the teeps came in on their side in this particular conflict. :)<BR/><BR/>That's it for now. Too much to keep in the brain at once. As noted before, Monday morning. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04444376138297002474noreply@blogger.com